Crastinate

RECAP:

I was able to cancel the rest of my 1.5 year verizon contract in a mere 21 minutes (beat that, Amy!), without paying an ETF. I used the FUSC method Ely outlined, and it worked like a charm.

UPDATE:

I recieved a messages asking to call a top verizon rep last night. I returned the call this morning. (8/13/08). I was a little concerned that they found out the FUSC thing was a ruse and a $0.15 increase in my bill was not materially adverse by common law, and would re-instate my contract because I snuck out on faulty terms.

However, that was not the case. When I called back, a very sweet representative asked (begged) me to come back. She offered me 2 free months of service and a bunch of other perks. I politely declined. She asked me why I left. I reiterated my FUSC fee argument, threw in some info about dropped calls in surrounding rural areas and then voiced my real opinion:

Verizon was the first wireless company that was offered the iPhone contract from apple, and they rejected the offer. I said that if they had never done that, then we wouldn’t have been in this position. I really wanted an iPhone, and I got one. Since that meant switching to a competitor, it results in another lost customer for Verizon.

The rep then continued to talk smack about AT&T service (3G only has 45% nat’l coverage, verizon has 90, blah blah). I politely declined her offer, and she said that for every 1 person that leaves, they have 2 people come back. Seeing that my caffeine high was a little too euphoric at the moment, I didn’t feel like calling BS on her dubious claim.

All in all, Verizon has been a great sport about this. I really think that the key to dealing with them is to be friendly, honest and succinct. Sincerely talk with these reps like you would an old friend, and the results are pretty magical.

Thus, here is another happy iPhone user who switched to AT&T without a hitch. I really think there is a suit in a Verizon skyscraper somwhere beating his/her head against a wall because they declined Apple’s offer.

Good luck!

Brilliant video! I was able to get Sprint to refund both $200 ETFs when my wife and I switched to AT&T for iPhones. The rep refused at first suggesting that I need to have my lawyer contact their legal department as their is no flexibility on this fee, but I held my ground and after thirty minutes of holding for a supervisor (and another 30 of arguing the semantics of their contract) the rep broke and gave me a $400 credit for both ETFs.

I just went through my Verizon account and I found the following:

Our Rights to Make Changes
Your service is subject to our business policies, practices and procedures, which we can change without notice. UN LESS OTHERWISE PROHIBITED BY LAW, WE CAN ALSO CHANGE PRICES AND ANY OTHER CONDITIONS IN THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME BY SENDING YOU WRITTEN NOTICE PRIOR TO THE BILLING PERIOD IN WHICH THE CHANGES WOULD GO INTO EFFECT. IF YOU CHOOSE TO USE YOUR SERVICE AFTER THAT POINT, YOU’RE ACCEPTING THE CHANGES. IF THE CHANGES HAVE A MATERIAL ADVERSE EFFECT ON YOU, HOWEVER, YOU CAN END THE AFFECTED SERVICE, WITHOUT ANY EARLY TERMINATION FEE, JUST BY CALLING US WITHIN 60 DAYS AFTER WE SEND NOTICE OF THE CHANGE.

My concern is that I might have used my phone after I recieved there mail (I think so..I dont open all mail I get).

Is this going to prevent me from opting out of Verizon contract without paying EFT?

Please advice.

Worked for me. The first time I called they were asses about it. The second time I called about 30 minutes later I was really nice and got a nice lady on the other end. She tried to tell me it was a tax and I read the Prices We Set paragraph and the Early Cancellation without ETFs paragraph and that was it. She put me on hold for about 5 minutes and came back and said my service was cancelled.

I just posted. I set the record. It took me 9 minutes according to my last call timer.

Finally cancelled!! ;-D
Called earlier in the morning and was on the phone for nearly hour and half by a women who had a terrible accent and could not make a sentence with a factual point or claim.

Called back 1 hour later was put on hold and the phone call lasted 10 min.
One thing I’m worried about… Representative noted to me that the Phone will be cancelled immediately however, the actual line it self will be cancelled August 21.
Also, the bill will show a credit of $145 but, will also show a debit of $145 as well. Anyone else get this information from their rep who was successful? I also took her name and employee # down.

Great! Thanks Ely! To everyone keep trying, I guess they don’t log their calls. Also, be calm!! My FUSC was only a change of $.02!! and they still did it! LOL

great video. im planning on doing this. i looked at the FUSC rate and it went up by $.01 since last month, so technically i can cancel. do you think ill really have a chance though, with it only being one penny?

OK. Week 2. A VM reply from the Account Exec who stated that he could not waive the ETF, and would welcome me to call back to discuss. I did not, yet. I called again and went through the same process, with a similar result of a lady promising to call me back tomorrow. Sounded a little more understanding. However, I did find out that my FUSC has gone up AGAIN on my 8/9 bill. This time a 18.75% increase. The lady pointed out that they had never sent me a written notice of the increase, and, therefore, that the agreement didn’t apply. I politely pointed out that it was, in fact, a worse situation that they had increased my FUSC WITHOUT telling me, and that this could be an issue for the FTC. She seemed kind of shocked that I mentioned that. Stand by for futher news.

Ely,
I watched this vid, and really became interested.
Everything you have said makes absolutely perfect sense, and from what I read, has worked for a great many verizon customers.

I however reside in Canada, and I’m with Telus.

I got screwed over when my cell died. I had 8 months left to my current contract then, and really didn’t want to pay $500 for a new phone, so telus let me renew for 3 years and get a cheap-o free phone. However, I wanted a dataplan, and a dataphone. No dice.

I have 2 years and 2 months left to my current contract. I want out. Telus has treated me (along with many others) very very poorly and are only offering me $200 off the price of a data phone (not their discounted price so I’m still having to pay something like $250-300 for the phone) and I’d still have to sign into a 3 year data plan.

I want out, they’re jerks.
I’m going to look over my telus bill and see if I can get out the same way you have advised people to get out of their verizon contracts.

Any advice?

So I tried to get out of my contract today with Verizon and all they said was that they would credit me for the amount that my bill increases by the Federal Universal Service Charge (when it does increase) I argued with the customer service rep and he said that by doing that they are removing it so there’s no adverse effect. So I tried to say no where on the contract says that and he said it doesn’t have to and I just thought that was stupid reasoning. Why should I have to strictly abide by the contract if they don’t? So I just asked to speak with a supervisor and nothing happend really happend. I guess I have to try again. =(

Has it been 60 days since this change? I called in today and they said that the changes on the charges were made on the 8th and that it had been more than 60 days already. I do not have the postcard anymore and they want me to fax it in. Does anybody have a copy of their postcard so I can fax them a copy? Thanks.

Jon, I successfully did this over the weekend. The 60 days is from the date you were notified, which is based on your billing cycle. I checked and it first appeared on my July 19 bill. Anyway the change was July 1, so even if your billing cycle is on the first and they actually got the notification on there that fast, you still have until September 1.

Jeff, in the video Ely addresses that argument. Don’t let them get away with not upholding their end of the agreement. At one point I said to them, “I see the part of the agreement which says there is an ETF but I also see the part which says if there is a change I can cancel by calling within 60 days.” Point out that if the ETF part is valid, so is the rest.

Oh, and again for Jon: I don’t remember getting a postcard but if you look at your account on verizonwireless.com you can see pdfs of all your bills. That is how I checked when I was notified (looked at the previous 2 bills). Also, the part about whether it had been 60 days or not never came up at all for me when I was talking to them.

ely,

alright i’ve spoken to a couple of supervisors and one manager and they keep saying that since they are trying to credit me back, that no longer makes it materially adverse. i also mentioned that this could be a case for the ftc (federal trade commission) and the guy said he encouraged it. i kept saying that since they are trying to credit me back, then it is materially adverse and i should be able to cancel. but he just kept saying that they won’t cancel without an etf. what do i do?

I DIDNT GET ANYWHERE WITH THEM

I spent a few hours on the phone tuesday with a few different CSRs, with no results. Basically I was told that the Verizon Wireless legal team had decided that this was not a material adverse effect, and that to contest this fact I would need to have my lawyer contact said legal team. Stonewalled there, by multiple supervisors.

this is reaaly quite simple. took me 1 escalation to the supervisor.

there are 3 main points that you need to make and stick to

1. the federal universal service charge went up (changed) within 60 days of your call to customer service. even if it went back down, make the point it changed and it could happen again.

2. You AGREE that verizon has the right to change that fee anytime they wish (page 2 of your statement)

3. but you in turn (according to the contract) have the right to the cancel service within 60 days.

THERE IS NO BREACH OF CONTRACT

you are simply excersing your right to cancel service. you have to make sure you adhere to the fact that the only reason you wish to cancel is because of the FUSC (they will ask you for other reasons), and that you decline the credit of the difference for the remainder of the contract. if you decline, then there is still an adverse affect and you are well within your rights to calmly cancel. remain calm, factual, and it is very smooth process.

I TALKED TO THESE PEOPLE UNTIL I WAS BKUE IN THE FACE SHE SIMPLY SAID WE ARENT GPOING TO LET YOU OUT OF YOUR CONTRACT. MINE WENT UP OVER NINE PERCENT. CAN YOU HELP PLZ

Hey Ely!!
I’m so excited to see that this is successful with Verizon because I’ve seen it done with other carriers. I’ve been researching and gathering up literature for the past view days and then I stumbled across your video and it just made it all concrete for me. I think I have a ticket in but I want to make sure its valid. My July 2008 bill has an FUSC change but I want to make sure its a change on my. They probably worded it weird to make me think otherwise. Here it is:

FUSC Change
The Federal Universal Service Charge (FUSC) is a Verizon Wireless charge that is subject to change each calendar quarter based on contribution rates prescribed by the FCC. On July 1, the FUSC changed to 2.42 percent of assessable wireless changes, other than separately billed interstate and international long distance charges. The FUSC on these charges changed to 11.4 percent. For more details, please call 18886841888

Would you mind letting me know if this is grounds for cancellation? I think it may be the exact instance that you made this video for but I wasn’t sure. Also about porting my numbers to another service provider. Do you think they’d let me do so before complete cancellation and still not try and charge me? Thanks!!!

I HAVE TALKED TO THESE PEOPLE
FOUR TIMES MANGERS SUPERVISORS. THEY WILL NOT LET ME OUT. WHAT CAN I DO NOW. GOT ONE MORE WEEK.THANKS CHERYL

WELL I AM NOT GETTING ANYWHERE WITH THESE PEOPLE AT ALL I HAVE CALLED SIX TIMES. I GUESS I JUST AM LEAVING THEM. ON DISABILITY. CAN THEY COME AFTER ME? CAN I PAY FIVE DOLLARS A MONTH. ANY HELP I APPERICATE IT. THANKS CHERYL

Did it. Almost 2 hrs. They got mean, interrupted, yelled, said they would not waive the fee, argued, insulted me for even making the argument, said there was no one above them when there was, but finally they waived it. Escalated 3 times, 2 different managers. At one point I spent 1 hour with the same person who kept on saying “we will not waive the fee, you need to take legal action.” You can do it, you just need to be a shark.

Just called and pressed #4 ‘other options’, which led to option – ‘terminate service’. I think a lot of people are talking to CSR on first level. You need to speak to the termination people. They have the authority to cancel ETF. I was on the phone about 25 mins and he used all the arguments posted above. He came back after a brief wait and asked me specifically what was the reason I wanted to end contract (maybe because I had complained about bad reception last month). I said the only reason was because I did not agree with the price increase and that was the only reason. He said the only thing he could do was give me an ETF of half price. I knew I could probably argue further, but for a measly $70 bucks, I will gladly not waste half my Saturday arguing on the phone! So good luck, be patient and nice.

Keep in mind that they do keep track of remarks, so when you call back for further attempts, they already have some record of what has been tried. For me they basically said this has already been denied by a supervisor, and I got escalated to another supervisor, who basically cut me a deal and I ended up paying less than 1/3 of the ETF.

Whether I was entitled to the whole thing or not, I’ll take it.

i called today as well. i battled with the tier one csr who knew absolutely nothing about the fusc for about 5 mins then was transferred to the supervisor. I then battled him for a good 15 mins as he tried to lie on me about what the fusc is. He was bent on calling it a tax but when i read him the customer agreement he ate those words. i called him out on it and he would give me a solid answer…hmmm he instead called it a charge, which it is. anyway it ended in him telling me he doesnt have the authority to waive the fee (which could very well be another lie) and that he has to put in some “request” to some legal department which will take 24 to 48 hours to get a response to…i took his info and have to wait till tuesday or wednesday for a response. I wonder what kind of bull they are conjuring up, i almost regret letting him off the phone. i wish i went higher up

Ely,

I’m on a contract with my parents and I want to get out of my contract but my parents want to stay. I was looking through our bill and it showed that the FSUC went up on my fathers line, but not mine. Would I be able to just get out of my contract with your process or would the fee have to be increased on my line for just me to get out of the contract?
Thanks

The FUSC is a charge that can change quarterly up or down. That being said it is not an adverse affect because this is mandated by the FCC. All communication companies have these charges, the difference with Verizon and others is they are up front with thiers. The rep I talked to had me pull out my home phone bill (AT&T) and sure enough there it was. I then had my Son show me his Sprint cell phone bill and yep, it was there. I looked the FUSC up myself on line and through the FCC website, below is an excerpt directly fromt he FCC’s website;
Universal Connectivity Fee (Universal Service Fund), Federal:

Because telephones provide a vital link to emergency services, to government services and to surrounding communities, it has been our nation’s policy to promote telephone service to all households since this service began in the 1930s. The USF helps to make phone service affordable and available to all Americans, including consumers with low incomes, those living in areas where the costs of providing telephone service is high, schools and libraries and rural health care providers. Congress has mandated that all telephone companies providing interstate service must contribute to the USF. Although not required to do so by the government, many carriers choose to pass their contribution costs on to their customers in the form of a line item, often called the “Federal Universal Service Fee” or “Universal Connectivity Fee”. The link is
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/phonebills/samplePhonebill.html

All companies charge a percentage of that charge to our customers. If the FCC raises our cost, it is passed on to our customers based on a percentage. Example; The FCC may charge Verizon $100 per line, Verizon charges its customers 1.3% of $100 = $1.30. The next quarter the charge the FCC charges VZW is $125 Verizon charges it’s customer 1.3% = $1.63. Verizon is well within it’s rights to pass these charges on to it’s customer just as every other communications carrier, this is the reason it is no longer waiving the ETF for these charges. Spend more time worrying about real issues in life and not arguing over a charge that may change by pennies every 3 months. If you are going to be an educated consumer look at everything, not one idiots opinion.

WELL THEY ARE ON TO THIS. SO DOESANT DO ANY GOOD ANYMORE

CHERYL, you’re right. it’s NOT gonna work. I’ve called 4-5 times within last couple of days spending hours on the phone. it’s been an absolute PAIN IN THE A**. I was really calm the first couple of times, but later had to be a bit defensive. but was never rood. I’ve thrown out 10-15 different arguments, twisted mine and their words, relying on my rather decent rhetorical ability, but to no avail. they’ve obviously caught on and have made sure that there aren’t even a few CSR’s/supervisors that a lucky caller could get to have their contract terminated sans an ETF. it was a good fight, but some of us just jumped on the boat a bit too late. it hurts me to say this, but I’m afraid “the man” is coming out on top this time, fellas.

THATS RIGHT. I EVEN TALKED TO THE PRESIDENT OF VERIZON. CALLED MY HOUSE. I AM JUST GONNA HAVE TO PAY FIVE DOLLARS A MONTH. I DID CANCEL ANYWAY. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT CAN HAPPEN IF YOU DO CANCEL. I SEE YOU DONT GO TO COURT. MAYBE HAVE ALL THIS PRINTED OUT WHERE SOME WERE ABLE TO GET OUT AND OTHERS ARENT. WORTH A TRY THOUGH. GOOD LUCK!

haha wow, you gotta hold of the president of verizon. they actually let you pay $5 a month? you’re talking about paying of the ETF right? I see you’ve already canceled. I’m canceling soon too. probably today. my pro-rated ETF isn’t too crazy, but it stil pisses me off to pay it knowing that the FUSC fee is SUPPOSED to let me off the hook. blehh.

NO I EMAILED HER.IT WAS ON HERE SOMEWHERE SHE CALLED MY HOME. I HAVE VERIZON HOME SERVICE TOO. SHE WONT LET ME OUT. BUT THEY ARE GOING TO GET ONLY FIVE DOLLARS FROM ME. I LOST MY JOB. TAKE IT OR LEAVE.THATS ALL I HAVE.

THEY HAVE NOT CAUGHT ON.

I sent Ely’s video to a friend, and it worked for her yesterday (8/26/08). And if they transfer you, then you did something wrong.

The very first rep you talk to has the power to waive your ETF fee. If they transfer you, that means you’ve reached a) an unexperienced rep, b) a rep who’s tired of talking to you and wants to go on a smoke break or, c) a rep who’s really confused or offended by your claims.

Be polite, be kind, be friendly. Hell, I flirted my ass off with my rep – I had her laughing within the first few minutes of the call.

Talk to them like you would an old friend. They’re people too. Don’t demand, don’t complain, and don’t ever make them feel like they did anything wrong.

Ohh ic. I can’t believe how crazy stubborn they’re being about this. I mean if others have terminated their contracts early w/o paying an ETF starting july 1st because of the change in the FUSC tax, they should be letting out the ppl making the same request as long as it’s before their rule of calling before 60 days (which it still is). so you just told them that you’re gonna be paying $5/month and they were kool with it?

THANKS for the tutorial on how to get out of a cell contract. I just got my letter today from T-Mobile that stated they canceled my account and waived an early termination fee!

Thanks again!

oh, T-Mobile recently raised Text Messaging rates – However, T-Mobile has a 14-day stipulation in their contract so you MUST operate quickly on them if you plan the same method of attack!

So I called on Aug 26th and talked to a supervisor who wouldnt do it and then I called back and got another supervisor on Aug 27th. I was on the phone with him for an hour. Now mind you I have two lines of service so I would have to pay two ETF’s. He said they only thing he could do was waive ONE of the ETF’s and give me two months of free service. So after the two months of free service I can cancel and just have one ETF. Not exactly what I wanted but hey! better then nothing!

Janice, so when that offered to you, was it a direct result of you arguing the FUSC fee increase too?? hmm.. maybe I should try again!!?

oh, and do you remember your guy supervisor’s name by any chance? thanks in advance!

Finally, it’s done. I decided to call one last time after reading JON FISHMAN’s post above. it worked, but not completely. talking to a very nice woman supervisor, she kept saying that they just could NOT waive the ETF. 15 mins later, as I was still being very polite and kinda funny, was offered to pay a flat fee of $45 (more than 50% off my final ETF) to once and for all be free of VZW for eternity! I jumped on the offer. it’s obvious that they still do have the ability to waive the ETF, but I’ll take this as a victory and move on. especially cause I’ve already canceled, ported my # over to AT&T, and picked up a 16GB iphone a few days ago =). so far, it’s as amazing as the majority of ppl say it is. thanks again ELY. good luck to everyone else!

I got nowhere. They told me that their legal team said this isn’t a valid charge to get out of contract. They also had the stupidity to tell me that NO ONE has gotten out of the contract using the FUSC…ha! He kept telling me over and over again that the next step I can take is to mail a letter with my complaint, but even then they won’t waive the fee because it’s not valid for ANYONE. I used all the arguments, told them that they are violating the customer agreement and so on. I got so fed up and now I don’t know whether to suck it up and pay $330 or try again later.

alright i did it but it was literally a week long battle. started the dispute on saturday was told to wait for a reply for four days and finally ended the dispute today, friday. not a total waiver but a slammin deal $195 for the cancellation of three lines. so im satisfied, plus the rep was extremely nice and tolerant and helpful. thanks for the tips. they will lie to you so be wary. I had called and reached other supervisors while waiting for the original guy to contact me back (dont do that bad decision, be patient). anyways i got two rude ladies who sounded like they would rather die than waive the fee. one was even threatening me and was like “I’m going to put it on your account that this fee does not get waived and I’m gonna make sure no one waives or lowers it”. I showed her…rude woman…

there has to be something we can do, my boyfriend and i got both got ours waived by a csr, but then he recieved a call saying it wouldnt be waived because they do not do it for the FUSC, umm BS there is proof all over the internet they do, we are going to try and fight it and tell them they cant do it for some and not others, thats not right!! they made a mistake and need to own up to it and follow the customer agreement. I argued and argued and didnt get it waived but then my bf called and got it waived in 30 min and then told the rep, about me and they waived mine as well.
UGH.

rachel, wow can’t believe they actually go through the trouble of calling ppl back saying they’ve “made a mistake.” the first 3-4 csr/supervisors I talked to, I too used the argument of “how am I different from others that got out w/o paying the ETF” argument as a last resort right before hanging up. and they don’t seem to respond to it too well. they’ll simply say something like “well I personally have no recollection of anyone else being let out” or even “you know someone who got out? give me their phone # and I’ll take a look and make sure to call them back to tell them their ETF won’t be waived.”

they have the easiest time lying to you and seems like they’d say anything to get you off their backs. it’s funny cause out of the 5 total times I called, each supervisor’s explanation of why they can’t waive it was slightly different, and I made sure to argue that as well.

just keep calling and I’d bet that by the 4th or 5th time, someone is more than likely to give in. when it worked for me the 5th time I called, it was by far the meanest sounding supervisor that did it for me (over 50% off my ETF at the time). so keep pounding away, and since you guys have 2 lines, if not getting the entire 2 ETF’s waived, partial or even just getting the ETF waived for 1 line would be the next best thing.

Can we still do this? I thought it was 60 days from when we received notice, which was the 19th of July for me since the only notice I received was my bill. The agent pointed out that the FUSC was the same in June and August and slightly less in July. So I am a bit confused now.

Wow! This is hopeless. They are saying it is a business policy to just make up the difference in the fee and therefore, I can not cancel since it says in the Customer Agreement that I am subject to their business policies. I asked for the business policy and she refuses to provide it to me or transfer me higher. I have spoken with 6 people. How did you guys do this?

Well good for those it worked for. I really hate Verizon, the federal gov’t, and all other big businesses that rip off the citizens it is supposed to protect. Verizon and such companies make too much profit. The government takes a nice chunk and allows it eventhough we put them in office and they are supposed to protect us. No one cares or looks out for the general population and this is sadly what is wrong with the world today. The people who own Verizon spend this extra cash on a 300 million dollar jet rather than a 50 million dollar one. Or buy an 80 million dollar estate instead of a 5 million dollar one. at the cost of so many hardworking regular class citizens.
More relevantly, I didn’t get out of my contract as the supervisor argued that the FUSC charge is a set rate (set percentage), hence if your monthly bill is different then your FUSC charge will change slightly. How can I argue against a supposed set percentage? It is still a set fee. I tried arguing it doesn’t state it in the contract it is a set percentage fee but they wouldn’t budge. Cell phone companies charge way too much but we all need service. they are clinged onto our pockets forever and the gov’t allows them. I am tired of being raped and abused by exhorbant amounts of money. Swindled and taken for a ride. This will never change as greed and power make the world go round! I guess it could be worse if I lived in another country and we were talking about food and water shortages. but I think we should never settle for less. The average consumer doesn’t have a lot of money and is on a tight budget. The majority of a population will always have less than the minority. Does the minority really need SO MUCH MORE?

I ran acvroos this (person who claims to be a supervisor for verizone here in huntsvile al,
here’s his coment on the al.com forum board: http://www.al.com/forums/huntsville/index.ssf

oops, sorry for the bad grammar, across,verizon,comment.